Everyone Is Betting on Bigger LLMs. She's Betting They're Fundamentally Wrong. (Eve Bodnia, Founder & CEO of Logical Intelligence)
Eve Bodnia is the co-founder and CEO of Logical Intelligence, which is developing energy-based reasoning models (EBMs) as an alternative to large language models. She argues that LLMs, which operate by recognizing and recombining patterns within language space, are structurally incapable of genuine reasoning. Eve's alternative: Kona — an EBM that reasons in abstract latent space, learns rules about the world rather than surface patterns, and can interface with language models as one output channel among many. Eve traces the core ideas behind her architecture to decades of work in symmetry groups, condensed matter physics, and brain science — fields that share, as she explains, the same underlying mathematics. In a public demo, Kona solved a complex reasoning task for roughly $4 in compute, compared to an estimated $15,000 using frontier LLMs.
- Uploaded
- Uploaded May 26, 2026
- Queried
- Queried 0 times
Speaker A: There's just a lot of healthcare areas where robotics can be crucial, like robotics for surgeries. Imagine if you let LLM drive it, somebody says, oh, you know, the 20% of the time during brain surgery, it can go to like the wrong area. I'm so sorry. You can't have that. You need really fast inference. You need to speak on the millisecond, microsecond scale. Do it. AGI should be just like natural intelligence, something which plans, something which is able to predict, produce new knowledge. So we created ecosystem to serve us as humans.
I see that AGI to me is that ecosystem but for the AI models to serve us as humans. Kona is really cheap. It's very efficient. It doesn't need any special hardware. If your data changes, if your environment changes, you need to be able to recognize it like this. So I want people always be in charge of what AI can be doing. My biggest nightmare is if AI is doing something that was not meant to be doing. So you need to work with different architecture which can self-align, which can adapt its behavior, which can be precise when It needs to be precise.
Speaker B: Every major AI company is building a better language model, but Eve Bodnia thinks they're all solving the wrong problem. Eve is the founder and CEO of Logical Intelligence, a new AI lab built on an entirely different architecture. The company's energy-based reasoning model thinks in abstract mathematical space solves problems with formal guarantees of correctness, and runs fast enough to control a surgical robot or design a chip in real time. In our conversation, Eve and I discuss why she left academia to start a company, what LLMs fundamentally can't do, the true nature of creativity, and the wisdom of legendary mathematician Grigori Perelman.
Want to learn more?
Ask a question